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More evidence for the review of Work Capability Assessment
Posted Tuesday 26 October 2010
The Work Capability Assessment (WCA) is the gateway to Employment and Support Allowance, the new incapacity benefit. Mind has campaigned strongly to reform this assessment process, as we do not feel it accurately picks up on mental health problems and their impact on the ability of an individual to work. This campaigning has included feeding into the current Independent Review of the system by Professor Harrington.
As part of Mind’s commitment to fighting to protect benefits for those who need them, and involving people with experience of mental distress in our work, we recently accompanied two representatives with experience of the WCA to a meeting with Professor Harrington. Mike and Naheen made valuable contributions to the meeting, which aided the process of Professor Harrington developing an accurate understanding of what was going wrong with the system. They've agreed to share some of their thoughts here.
The meeting was very interesting and useful. I was very impressed by Professor Harrington’s deep understanding of the WCA process and his accurate analysis of what is wrong with it and what is needed to address these issues, which is an awful lot!
I am disgusted that people with very serious illness and disabilities, who are clearly not able to work, are passed as ‘fit to work’ by the WCA. I think it speaks volumes that on appeal 40% of their claims are allowed, which illustrates how pathetically poor the initial WCA is. This is in no one’s interest, as yet another layer of bureaucracy is needed to reassess the original claim, which is a needlessly costly waste of public money and a cause of great anxiety and stress to people, who often have to wait many months for their appeal to be heard. There has to be a better, more accurate and humane way than this chaotic shambles.
-Mike Bush, Retired Mental Health Social Worker
There were many people at the meeting from both mental health and learning disability organisations, as well as people who have direct experience of the WCA. We had a chance to air our concerns about the problems we had prior to attending the WCA, i.e. the process of applying. We gave an account of the difficulties we suffered due to the lack of understanding by those who conducted the assessments. Finally, we concluded with how the process in general for applying for sickness benefits could be improved, as well as what could be done to aid a person’s recovery to wellbeing after they had either successfully or unsuccessfully applied for the WCA.
I was pleasantly surprised with how this seminar went as I felt as though we were all listened to and our contributions were highly valued and respected. I have no doubt that this review will push forward and do its utmost to highlight our concerns to those who have the power to improve the welfare system. However, with the spending review and major welfare cuts announced several days ago, I also hope this does not jeopardise or worsen the condition of so many welfare benefit claimants who have no idea how they will cope when their economic and welfare rights are further reduced.
-Naheen Ali, ESA Claimant
At Mind, we are hopeful that the Review will produce an insightful analysis of the current system and some practical recommendations for how it can improve. If this is the case, we will need our supporters to help us pressure the Government to take on these recommendations.
In the meantime, we will shortly be posting details of what the Comprehensive Spending Review announcements on welfare might mean for you, and how Mind will be responding, on our Benefits and welfare reform pages.
Tom Pollard, Policy and Campaigns Officer
96 Comments
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Pressure the government? How, exactly? You shouldn't be relying on us; we rely on YOU to pressure the government on our behalf. When we try to approach the government, our details are passed on to the DWP, it's too scary a prospect to leave ourselves so open to reassessment in that way (fit to fight, fit to work). We've been begging you to pressure the government for ages and nothing was done other than a couple of blog posts about how terrible it all is and how concerned you all are, with the occasional reference to Blair's Diary for added interest. It's a bit rich to come back now and ask for help from supporters to do what we've been begging you to do all along.
Thank you to Mike and Naheen. This is good that finally someone's views have been heard but as usual it's too little too late. This could have been prevented from getting this bad if Mind had been the campaigning agency you claim to be right from the start when it really mattered. All this is now is damage limitation, but for many of us the damage has already been done. Continually we see people saying they have made plans for their own suicides but this never gets acknowledged, all we get is platitudes and the occasional signposting to the Samaritans or Mindinfoline. Where are the marches? Where's the outrage? People want to DIE rather than live through this and in a cosy little office somewhere are some people talking about how terrible it all is and how concerned you feel. ACTION speaks louder than words. -
I read Mind's published response to the review and now I have read this blog entry with the two quotes.
In my opinion there is simply not enough about the descriptors. You can be unfit for work but not pass the descriptors. Where is the comment on the revised descriptors that all three parties have agreed to? Is mind going to say anything to the government about these or is it going to wait until they become law and then lamely comment when it's too late?
What is it doing about the half-soaked mutterings by the coalition a while back about reintroducing some sort of special provision for those with severe and enduring mental illness?
I keep reading what Mind has to say about talking therapies. It's not talking therapies we'll be needing by the time all this is done, it's beds in PICUs and ICUs.
There is fear out there. There is anger out there. The government isn't listening to us, but it might listen to you. Start campaigning about the descriptors.
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What we are seeing now is certain interest groups speaking in isolation over how the cuts will affect them. Public sector workers rightly outraged at job cuts are an example. Problem is that those at the bottom of society who have no voice and are ignored by the media are feeling this the most. Examples of how sickness benefits affect the poor always use people with physical disablilties to highlight the injustice of it because the media know that those with mental health problems do not attract the same amount of public sympathy. So those of us with mental health problems are right at the bottom fitting nicely into the 'scrounger' mentality feeling the full force of Govt policy of cuts to benefits and possible workfare programmes. Make no mistake the media campaign over the last 4 months has been directly aimed as us. That is why I would have liked to have seen MIND more vocal over this period because beleive me feeling like the bog end of society is not doing much for my mental health.
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Completely agree with the above posts. It is impossible to avoid the huge sense of oppression and alienation like an army of righteous cold hearted ignorant self serving hatchet men getting closer. I am certainly one of the many that have felt increasingly and chronically at the edge of suicide - not an attempt at suicide only to be faced with more judgement and disbelief - but looking for the most certain way of achieving this - like a person waiting execution with a vile of cyanide as a way of pre-empting the inevitable. It feels like they have got away with months of disablist language and coldly and methodically got away with dividing society against each other - simply in order to feel the masses are on their side and the 'scrounger' and 'malingerers' are the ones to blame - and they find plenty to agree with them - and of course it means those with mental health problems because sympathy naturally falls to the physically disabled as they are the ones that can be seen to be deserving. It is the most frightening time to be alive and suffering with severe mental health problems - not of my own causing but through very early and severe and chronic long term abuse. There you go, said it, not meant to but for God's sake why blame the people who are vulnerable and through no fault of their own dependent on state benefits - it is not a lifestyle choice, believe me. We all wish to be able to get away from this, not ask anything from anyone, just to be left in peace, and safe.
It does not feel enough - the polite approach from Mind - it looks more like they are flattered to be cavorting in Ministerial circles - palmed off with platitudes - whilst in government they carry on and carry on with their mission to diminish the State and leave everyone to fend for themselves.
The view they continue to espouse being 'we feel people with mental health problems are better off in work' - well what about Mind standing up for those who are in the severe camp and make that their priority because that is where the lives will be lost. -
Bernard - I totally agree, we need more decisive action such as marches. It is totally inacceptable that people are left feeling unsupported to the point where they lose all hope and consider suicide.
The country is in a state of trauma under the governance of people who clearly have no understanding that leading a country means being responsible for the well-being of its people. And those who can escape this collective trauma are a very, very small minority. For most of us, life is becoming un-livable. It's time to react. -
You are sadly still missing the point. People with severe mental illness can only be put in the support group and written off or put in the WRAG and pressurised with sanctions on what is now a time limited benefit. Neither group is suitable for them.
The WCA has nowhere else to put them. What they need is an intermediate group - not time limited - not exposed to pressure/sanctions/conditionality/ where they won't be frightened to do six hours a week permitted work IF they are well enough and want to. They won't be frightened because people will stop talking about driving them completely off benefits.
The design of ESA with two sizes fits all is just plain wrong. They need a safe place in ESA that is more stimulating than the support group and safer than the WRAG.
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I sit here alone and just cry.I feel my life is coming to an end as i cant take this head pain anymore.I've suffered for years with mental health and I would'nt wish it on anyone.
We dont want to be this way but we are and we need help not more worry and stress.I prey this government will listen to the cry of the people and stop kicking us when we are already down.
Yes we need cutbacks but dont take from those who have nothing to start with.(not even there health). -
It's this sort of thing you should be responding to, Mind. Reading lies like this on a daily basis is far more dangerous and difficult to live with than the prospect of any prolonged period without access to CBT.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/oct/26/incapacity-benefit-claimants-work-dwp -
When people address their comments to MIND, I am interested in who or what this refers to. My local Mind has very few paid employees but lots of volunteers... a model which is probably replicated across the country. So when a march/protest is called for, who are we expecting to be there?
I understand folk feeling vulnerable and the 'fit to fight /fit to work' dilema, but mobilising any group of people in great numbers is never easy, no matter how passionate the cause. Finance, unavoidable committments or care neeeds and logistics, are all limiting factors in shows of strength. People's health and vulnerablity means we can't always be our own advocates, but each advocate that comes on-board for us can only do so much. Where we can, when we can, we all need to keep the pressure up.
Work Capability Assessments don't accommodate many forms of ill health, including other invisible conditions and those with fluctuating symptoms. It is difficult to make the most of your better days if you live in fear of being observed and reported for being fraudulently in receipt of your benefit.
Whatever shape the reformed test takes, it will suit the governments purpose rather than ours and their stated aim is to get most folk off the 'sick' and off the sofa. Wouldn't be quite so laughable if the jobless were fit for work and there were jobs begging to be filled.
The recently available training manuals for the PACE trial for those with CFS/ME (which despite World Health Organisation guidelines, the UK refuses to accept as a neurological condition and treats as a psychological one) has the DWP as one of it's funders. The flavour running through this work is 'you are sick because you think you are',
No doubt the results of work such as this will be the 'evidence' that their reforms are based on!
Take care
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This is not an attack on Mind, I think it's a wonderful organisation and I appreciate the work it does, however, I would like to echo the above comments Re: Welfare reforms/ Atos etc.
I live in fear and my shit quality of life is depleating by the day. I attribute this to the governments assault on benefits, backed by the right wing media. I am currently appealing for my incapacity benefit for the second time. I failed 2 years ago recieving 2 points. After 7 months of stress leading to a nervous breakdown, I finally had my tribunal. I was awarded 18 points and had my benfits reinstated. Not even an apology. I was kicked off again in March, my solicitor (get legal aid before it's abbolished) says it will probably be January before I get a hearing. My GP has done all he can to help me and my pdoc is insensed by the whole situation. I am one of many.
Suicide is a taboo subject, but what Bernard says in the above post is very true. As someone who suffers with Bipolar the odds are already against me.
When ministers are sat in Whitehall deciding to launch a right wing media attack on the sick, demonising them and even in some cases attributing 'the defict' to the welfare bill, are they aware of the damage they are doing to people with mental health conditions? We are invisible it would seem and that is why my comment and the ones above are so heated. We're terrified and look to organisations such as Mind to be the equivilant of our union.
You are not alone. What the governments says about us all being in this together is true - if your sick.
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The statement today that 78% of those assessed for ESA are found fit for work means they are now calling the WRAG - fit for work. It is pressurised and coercive and time limited and obviously not fit for people with serious disability. If you are in the WRAG you are expected to get back to JSA. This is not how the WRAG was originally sold.
It gets clearer all the time as they make the WRAG shorter and harder and start calling it a group for people who are fit for work. It gets clearer that people with severe mental illness can't go in the WRAG. So please negotiate lots of help in the 'support' group for them to do a little permitted work. That now seems to be the only option.
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The daily mail headline today 'tough new benefits test weed out the workshy' Relentless, relentless, relentless. Listen people I have TRIED to get work when I was well, tried, tried tried. Now too scared to even think about it. I feel paranoid that someone would see mental illness and write me off. We are being pushed into a corner ill/not ill enough/incapable/capable of something, but what?
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So often treated like 2nd class, in 30 years of personal experience its always been the same in some shape or form. Years ago they would not let you out of hospital to go back to work, now these hypocrites are part of the torment. Of course the NHS and dWP rarely if ever employ the long mentally ill.
NHS Service user involvement was a total con, used by nearly everybody and undermined if you complained.
Lets face it, attitudes on mental illness overall will never change especially in hard times.Human natural will alway scapegoat, mental health awareness just makes more prejudice. I could agree with Rachel Perkins OBE CBT MIND award on that, I would agree on little else with Rachel Perkins for whats its worth in respect of welfare reform.
Paul
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aggree with all above, the support group and high rate dla mental heath and those with disabilities should be as on incapacity benefit in the exempt group for wca,and anything should be voluntary.
Mind get this over us with mental health want anything that comes from dwp or atos (VOLUNTARY VOLUNTARY) -
I told you ages a go how and all i got was that you understand that it is difficult but you do not really i never felt under other governments like i do know ma\ybe we should die our hair blond and fit blue contacts.But mind we relied on you and other spokes people but if i lose my income that i desperatly need i really dont want to but i am worrying i will hurt myself or and something bad will happen i am having a real job with this constant hekling by the papers and government i will be on the streets soon as i am sure a lot others here will ....
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i am extremely disapointed with mind at not only a national, but local level, the response to the announcement of cuts to incapacity has been lukewarm to say the least, far toomuch time and effort has been spent on other campaigns whilst the fear of being forced into work or long term poverty the main cause of distress for service users on a day to day basis has been ignored.
At a local level i attend mind three times per week, we rarely see staff members, they are all too busy filling out "job justifications or management handbook criteria"
Following black wednesday last week many service users were visibly upset and in tears, not one staff member offered support and even asked why everyone was on a downer
Mind, its time to prioritise, fighting these unfair assessments (trials) must be your priority we need press, media and celebrity support now before its too late and mental health is simply no longer thought of as an illness.
Here is my challenge to you --get minds concerns mentioned on news at ten or bbc and frontpage daily news sooner than later before we are swallowed up amongst all the others facing hardships from these cuts
just a little ray of hope is all we need that we and our dependants are not going to have to pay for the greed of incompetent bankers and immoral mps -
We are aware that this is an extremely distressing time for a lot of people who rely on benefits. Therefore it is vital that people are receiving the correct information. Our pages on benefits and welfare will be updated shortly in response to the Comprehensive Spending Review but in the meantime I need to address some of the comments made on this blog.
We have serious concerns about the time-limiting of contribution-based ESA. However, people should not be led to believe that all ESA claims will be time-limited. The changes will mean that, if placed in the Work-Related Activity Group, you will only be able to claim beyond a year if you have savings of less than £16,000 and, if you have a partner, they work less than 24 hours a week. Nevertheless, we know that many people will be hit hard by this change, we do not believe it is fair, and we will be challenging this decision.
The widely reported figure of around 75% being found 'fit for work' today does not include those in the Work-Related Activity Group. The figure is a combined total of those declared 'fit for work' and those who drop out of the process before completing the assessment. It is wrong that the Government and press assume that those who drop out of the process are 'fit for work' when they may in fact be in great need of support. We are sending a letter to the Daily Mail today to challenge their coverage.
We believe that the Work-Related Activity Group does have an important role to play for those who may be able to work at some point in the future but need more time and support to do so and additional money in recognition of these circumstances. One of the key problems with the system at the moment is that far too few applicants are being placed in this group.
Finally, although we understand that people want to see Mind, through the media, offering opposition to the Government’s plans and the negative media coverage around welfare reform, the reality of the situation is that we face a media that is mostly hostile towards benefit claimants and uninterested in presenting a balanced picture. However, we managed to gain substantial coverage of our position at the start of the Incapacity Benefit migration pilots earlier this month. Mind’s Chief Executive and other spokespeople gave interviews on local and national BBC stations and numerous other popular media outlets. We will continue to look for opportunities like this to get our message across.
We are co-ordinating our work with many other disability charities and will be challenging the Government over what we believe are a number of unjustified policies and a failure within the Comprehensive Spending Review to protect the most vulnerable. Although this work may not always be visible to our supporters, we strongly believe that we are using the most effective tactics at this time to influence the process, and we will employ more public methods when they are appropriate.
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There are too many mental 'health' charities and effort is blizzarded around between and amongst them. Diabetes, Heart Disease and Cancer don't put up with being pushed around and marginalised - why not - well, partly because there are national charities called Diabetes UK; The British Heart Foundation and Cancer UK. Age Concern and Help The Aged have just merged to form Age UK. My challenge to all the leading MH charities is to continue with the great collaborative work AND think about merging. It would form all the various and diverse functions into one large brass door knocker for mental health and illness in the UK, instead of hundreds of separate ones - often competing, espy at local level for meagre tit-bits. To some extent, the previous MH Alliance was an exemplar - but we need a unifying voice and principle that glues us all together sustainably - in terms of what we are united for - not just what we are united against (which leads to dispersal once what we are against has been 'dealt with' - in this case the MH Act).
This could be even more timely in the face of GP Commissioning and "The Big Society"(ho,ho). Enough of having a number of separate glow-worm and worthy organisations - it's time to build a laser!
"Collaborate or continue to be ignored" and as Tim Smit says "nothing is impossible if people don't need to claim the credit for doing it".
People with a diagnosis of schizophrenia die 27 years earlier than those without; deprivation and poverty of realtionships and meaning eg in Scotland lead to a similar figure. Optimists live on average for 7 years longer than pessimists (Mayo Clinic research). No wonder people with a mental illness continue to be marginalised too when many people - doctors included, think that our mental functions are not delivered by processes that are just as phsycial as all the other functions in our bodies - and I'd have a rough guess that the brain has something to do with that. Yet we have Acute Mental Trusts and Acute Physical Trusts - why? Depression beats heart and lung disease as a disability and for many is itself a "severe and enduring mental illness" - yet that term is the preserve of those with psychosis alone and not the mother who had post-natal depression 15 years ago and has not left the house since because of agoraphobia. We need to get back to illness and not just focus on mental health and wellbeing too. Yes - "tough on illness and tough on the causes of illness". That's what a MH Alliance/MH UK organisation could offer. Any takers?
Very best wishes to you all and my heart goes out to those of you who are worried about the direction of travel. It's time for all the MH charities to step up to the plate and serve you all - you are their beneficiaries. MIND and others might also like to lobby the NHS Confederation - which is also a charity.
Chris -
I have suffered with a psychotic disorder for over 17 years, I am worried that if I am called to attend a medical assessment that I will attack someone and possibly hurt them I have avoided this exact scenario for many years by being a complete recluse. So who is going to take responsibility if I attack and hurt or even kill someone? I never put myself in that situation, i will have been forced into it by the gov!! How is it fair that I should end up sent to prison because i was forced to go through such an ordeal? It makes me sick and very worried for the future.
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Just caught end of parliament debate on suicide & self-harm. madeleine moon (labour) & paul burstow the lib dem health minister.
Was quite staggered to hear Moon say that, given the recession especially, that the media shouldn't report it when a suicide follows a job loss etc (a labour minister!?) and Burstow agreed the media must report responsibly, and also said more must be done to make sure that people putting in 'suicide' as a search term don't come across pro-suicide stuff, and that such content is taken down off web forums etc. I thought we were supposed to have a free media not a government managed one??
Despite these suggestions, Burstow said it's important not to over-medicalise suicide, and to take seriously the links between suicide and community factors such as "debt and unemployment". But then the only aspects he mentioned were the advantages of getting off benefits and in to work - nothing about the harm of people feeling scapegoated and the poorest made poorer and expected to find work without proper support.
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To be blunt, this really does scare me. I have BPD and Depression and am able to work, but only because my workplace is progressive enough to have an independent work place assessment adjustment process in place to cater for those of us who need physical or non-physical adjustments in order to remain in work. I asked for a reduction in targets, time away to see my psychiatrist, psychologist and counsellor/practice nurse at my GP's practice and crucially, a stop to being made to making outbound calls because I used to work in a call centre and anyone becoming mouthy with me over the phone would make me immediately run out of the room and on one occasion hide under the desk...I wish I was making this up! Thankfully, my manager agreed to this and I'm able to work. My psychiatrist wants me to remain in work as she thinks my condition would deteriorate quickly if I was at home unable to work as I even start to feel unwell if I'm sitting with nothing to occupy my mind. Everything starts to close in on me. Not good.
BUT - what, God forbid, if I was off sick and had to claim benefits? The stories about being assessed for work are freaking me out. Yes, i can use a phone, but in no way can I work in a call centre again. My concentration can be abysmal some days due to having suicidal thoughts and I can cope if i'm largely left alone with a task but if I'm given too much to do at once, I get overwhelmed and flustered really easily.
My heart goes out to all of you who are worried right now, it really does. People really don't understand the hidden illnesses - they understand a broken bone but not a broken mind.
Shame to this Government and shame to the scaremongering. I'm just glad I didn't vote them in.
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Who can we trust? I am struggling with PTSD on a daily basis and my symptoms are severe, completely debilitating and there is a recognised high suicide rate with this illness (several attempts already). I would give everything I have to be well, mentally strong and work again. My life and neediness is a daily humiliation. My breakdown hit me as suddenly and as brutally as a tsunami. I have tried everything, from medication (not effective) to CBT and EMDR therapy (Beware of this therapy, I believe it has significantly made my PTSD worse - I was just a guinea pig, with no long-term follow-up. EMDR is still encouraged and practiced).
I cannot survive without the support of my carer. I'm very lucky to have my carer who I can trust 100%.
I tried 'Supported Accommodation' with a local Housing Association and the support worker showed my file with details of my illness and history of trauma to my neighbour, who then began to bully me with the knowledge she claimed to have on me and told me what the support worker had given her. It was a fight to get out of the accommodation and after eventually getting a copy of my file under the "Freedom of Information Act', I discovered horrendous inaccuracies about my childhood traumas, inaccuracies concerning a more recent traumatic experience and even malicious lies about my previous work history which has damaged my previous good working reputation.
I approached a local charity (a Housing Trust) who represented people with mental health problems for legal support with my complaint to get the information they held on me shredded. I felt further traumatised and overwhelmed by it all. A female solicitor at the 'Housing Trust' spoke to me on the phone for over an hour (as I sobbed, utterly distraught) advising me to drop my complaint, stating "All they will do is drag it out for two years, use your mental health against you and you will lose." My mental health label is a life sentence and has rendered me invalid as a person and in law. It's prejudice itself which keeps me ill and suicidal with laws which offers no protection from abuse and renders me utterly invalid. I could not be more vulnerable.
My complaint took it's toll and I reported everything that had happened to my CPN at the time, but the NHS gave me no advice or support concerning this serious breach of confidentiality and abuse by staff. My illness was not helped by the fact that the local authority had allocated me a flat living underneath an aggressive, noisy and abusive anti-social tenant. (Was eventually transferred 3 years later to another flat, that's was another traumatic battle which I won't go into now).
Although I am quiet and keep myself to myself here and rarely go outside, I thought I had a good flat here with reasonable neighbours, until the Chair of the resident's association told me that someone in the block had said "There are too many nutters in the block, that is the problem". It has been repeated to new tenants moving in (by the Chair).
I am virtually housebound, I rarely make it outside my council flat and now I am too anxious to open my door to anyone.
Recently, I had to get my own prescription as my carer could not make it, and as hell as it was to get to the chemist, I made it. The chemist was very busy with people waiting for their medication. When I finally reached the counter and handed over my Income Support letter as proof for free prescriptions, the assistant said extremely loudly "You are on Income Support" as she ticked something on my prescription. I had a severe panic attack and my head was noticeably shaking, but I had to wait (20 mins), with my head looking down with the shame and embarrassment of it all. Nobody said anything, I wanted to die on the spot, it seems I am fair game to be publicly humiliated now. People seem to feel justified in publicly abusing the sick and disabled, "disability hate" is definitely becoming worse.
I apologise for the length of this comment, but I wrote in detail in the hope that someone, somewhere, will read this and begin to understand the poor quality of life for mentally ill people in this country and what we have to struggle with and endure everyday, whether that be the struggle for secure housing; 'professional' mental health support we can trust, or the common struggle not to end our lives in the hope for a better tomorrow.
Strength and courage to everyone, we'll need it.
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voluntary work [of choosing] as an outcome measure inbetween 'fit for work' and 'support group' with the backing of a consultant, and more exemptions from assessment again consultant backed because many are aware of who's at risk of deterioration/suicide. People are already ending up being readmitted through the sheer stress of this - how does that save money? It also puts more pressure on services being cut back.
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I'm also hearing of more people being openly and publicly interrogated by strangers about their employment/sickness history as though anyone who is sick/disabled is now public property and fair game. Some people are now scared to claim concessionary status where that's legitimate because of being scared of being questioned and judged. Some people ask on online support forums 'am I allowed to go to the gym?' because they now feel they are not supposed to do activities other people do in case it's viewed as 'fraudulent' [as the tabloid media suggested]. So all that work charities put into promoting exercise for mental health has been ruined.
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When I read these comments and the utter distress and fear expressed I have to wonder where this ridiculous 1 in 4 quote comes from (sorry Mind). Have one in four been called 'nutter' 'weirdo' or more succintly 'everyone round here knows about you'? Have one in four become reliant on benefits after losing careers, jobs? Do one in four find it impossible to get paid employment because of their mental history? Are one in four on lifelong medication?
No, is the answer to that, what has been happening is that those who have periods of transcient sadness are claiming depression, therefore trivialising a real and devastating illness. It also means that resources are being chanelled to the 'worried well' pushing desperate people on the margins. Talking therapies are aimed at those who are not mentally ill but are probably a bit p*ssed off with their lives and given society as it is at the momment this is not unusual or surprising.
None of this is helping us who are finding ourselves further and further cut of from society.
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I was receiving the old style Incapacity Benefit a couple of years ago and was called to routine assessment where I was seen by a Nurse who appeared to have no prior knowledge of mental health problems and was blatantly unreceptive, bordering on rude when I supplied my answers to her question which were totally irrelevant to what I was experiencing.
A few weeks later I was deemed well enough to work and my benefit stopped despite the fact that I was suffering from acute anxiety and could not leave the house unaccompanied. I put in a ten page protest against the decision which was turned down.
I was offered no help by the benefits agency and due to being on Incapacity Benefit for two years I was not entitled to any other benefit but still had to suffer the indignity of 'signing on once a fortnight'.
Eventually I did recover but I am still appalled by the way I was treated by the powers that be who felt they right to tell me whether I was well or not.
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I can only echo the comments i have just read. I feel nothing but fear for my future. I have never felt so much of an outcast that i have over the past few months. I dont want to go out and i dont want to live.
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Star - or anyone else reading the blog - please remember that Mindinfoline and Samaritans are available if you feel that you're in crisis.
Mindinfoline: 0845 766 0163 / info@mind.org.uk
Samaritans: 08457 90 90 90 / jo@samaritans.org -
has anyone wondered wether the government are acting legally in their reforms of the incapacity system,?
can they force people who suffer social phobia to attend these assesments (trials) with the threat of benefits being withdrawn?
can they force incapable people into work on the outcome of these assesments (trials) often simply the opinion of one very hastily trained gp.?
are we allowed to present our medical records/ history and pscychiatric reports to be considered at these assesments (trials)?
are we allowed to be accompanied by a cpn?
are we allowed to see the training records, work history of these doctors prior to these assesments (trials).
the reason why i keep referring to these capability assesments as trials is because in effect they are, if found guilty we are sentenced to having benefits withdrawn and labelled a scrounger whom is responsible in part for this country being in debt. however in a real trial we would be allowed to present evidence and be judged by several people -a jury, not just one
we do have a european human rights law, i would be interested if mind or anyone have considered looking in to this
Also i would like to hear of the mental health workers,GPS, opinion on these changes surely they have, or will notice an increase in workload.
one final note if you are worried about these changes and believe they are affecting your health tell your gp, cpn, its important they are made aware
oh and good on boris johnson for challenging the government on capping household benefit
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In defence of Mind and other MH charities, we all need to remember to focus our frustrations on who is doing this to us. This is happening because of decisions made at Westminster and a cowardly and prejudiced press who regularly schmooze at various VIP functions and gain more influence if they toe the line. The first thing any PM does when entering No.10 is invite the editors of Fleet Street. Mind and charities like them never get an invite
It is sickening to see MPs defend the Bankers on the news and programmes such as Question Time and watch Vince Cable squirm out of being challenged about the £6billion Vodofone tax bill which was recently written off without explanation.
Then there was the "Dispatches" programme aired in June where Neil O'Brien (Policy Exchange) who bravely tried to defend the poorest of society explaining that one third of all benefits are given to the "above average rich" (millionaires).A later 'Dispatches' programme aired this month exposed "How the Rich Beat the Taxman" revealing the devices the rich use to avoid paying tax, examining the financial affairs of ministers and others who have helped the coalition. They can afford intelligent accountants who can squirrel large amounts of money away to legally avoid paying tax in this country. There are a few brave media attempts out there trying to counter the scapegoating of the 'underserving poor' of the tabloid right-wing agenda, but it's all forgotten the next day of course.
We'll all have a rude reminder soon when billions are dished out in Bankers' bonuses this Christmas. I have also read some reports on the internet that the Banks may need another tax payers bailout next year, so I'm bracing myself for more abuse and the 'disability hate' people now feel justified to openly and publicly direct at us. But, like others above, I have an exit plan which will work this time, I just do not have the strength to fight this. I'm not at all surprised that ministers are attempting to stop the reporting on suicide figures, I think they are expecting it.
We are lucky to have the support of Mind who have no power over what the media reports, but I feel confident that they are doing all they can given limited resources and no real power to force the media to report anything. I appreciate this blog and the opportunity to air our anxieties and frustrations.
I worry for the future of Mind with pending cuts ahead. Without the staff at Mind I would never have had the benefits I needed to live at home with the support of my carer, my claim was repeatedly refused until Mind stepped in. So thank you Mind, you gave me years I would never have had.
I wish Mind and all it's staff a long and successful future and I thank all the people who have donated to Mind to make their tough work possible.
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i think that the incapacity benefit reforms which have taken place since 1997 yes 1997 with tony blair and his gang of bullies issuing lie after lie about us claiments and now under condems it still continues,under blair i have papers from the gov and dwp saying that existing claiments will be protected and it will only be new claiments that will be on the new esa benefit?
so charities thought that it was unfair to leave us on incapacity without help into work under the disability rights act,so it is the charities we have to blame for much of the mess we are facing,i am not saying mind was one of these as i do not know.
As i have said before if they want to help sick and disabled into work it should all be voluntary with no santions no threats not forced into going to dwp interviews,know its a different thing if they say there are fit people on this benefit and that the dwp must know who these people are as it was them and the past govs that put these unemployed onto incapacity instead of jsa.
But how can us with mental health be bullied by the dwp and atos and gov into something we cannot and will not do and as said by another there will be trouble with this forced treatment. -
I think people, especially MIND, need to look at this blog:
http://mindinflux.wordpress.com/2010/10/26/disability-and-propaganda/
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Experience of a generic work capability assessment makes me believe that everyone but those on life support would be assessed as able to work. If there was an assessment to establish if humans could fly it would similarly say yes they can.
The error of course is the generic nature of an assessment.
yes, we can sit, stand, hold things, walk up and down steps and move things BUT being paralysed by your thoughts, your habits, and all the real and imaginary stresses that psychosis brings is un-assessable and exceedingly difficult to comprehend by a Doctor who may know the illness but has not experienced the life of a client. It is somewhat like trying to imagine how it feels to be black when you are white. You can not do it justice no matter what assessment is made.ESA is good but it is insufficient to help clients get a life. Taking them off ESA is a recipe for increasing stress levels of clients and carers. Every 4-8 weeks on JobSeekers allowance you have to show what jobs you have applied for. this involves costs, concentration when you are trying to cope with the symptoms. Exhausting, demoralising in this climate and feelings of being harassed are not conducive to recovery.
MIND - needs to act with haste and vocalise what we as clients and carers can not do ourselves. We have no voice, we are discriminated against, we have no future unless the disabling character of our illness is appreciated, accommodated and not seen as a threat to society.
We can take our place in society when we are ready not when we are coerced! -
Mindreader replied on 28 Oct 2010 at 10:38
voluntary work [of choosing] as an outcome measure inbetween 'fit for work' and 'support group' with the backing of a consultant, and more exemptions from assessment again consultant backed because many are aware of who's at risk of deterioration/suicide. People are already ending up being readmitted through the sheer stress of this - how does that save money? It also puts more pressure on services being cut back.
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You are completely right. All they need is an intermediate category for people with a severe diagnosis who can't be suspected of fraud. A place where they can get back to work help IF they want it but there are no threats and sanctions. And lots of scope for permitted work and voluntary work. It's so simple.Grayling in the House was complaining what a conundrum it is for someone with say - motor neurone disease. They seem able to work but the background prognosis is rough. He doesn't want to write them off and say no one with this illness can ever work but on the other hand harassing them seems unkind. He doesn't know what to do.
The reason he can't decide the allocation is because he has two inappropriate groups to choose between. All he needs is a kinder more forgiving middle group for people with a severe diagnosis and every one will be happy. All the problems come from the 'conditionality' in the WRAG. All they need to do is take that off people with a severe diagnosis.
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We believe that the Work-Related Activity Group does have an important role to play for those who may be able to work at some point in the future but need more time and support to do so and additional money in recognition of these circumstances. One of the key problems with the system at the moment is that far too few applicants are being placed in this group.
The extract above is talen from TOM at MIND's recemt post on this blog.. If this is what MIND believes in then it must agree with SANCTIONS, amd forced workschemes for at least some with mental illness
Is that what mental health services users want, or is what somelse wants claiming that it is good for them. Did service users tell MIND that is what they want, If not who are you representing?As for ESA contribution based time limited to a year. Could you also add those who get occupational pensions, seems to have been left out.
As for those who said MIND is being unduly criticised, well the reason is they have been involved with the WCA and welfare reform from the very beginning together with psychiatrists, DWP and other major charities. If they had not been involved there would not be the criticism. I personally complain to all the organisations involved with welfare reform including the DWP, NHS, employment tribunals, employment providers and many more. I will not say anymore than that, I have.disclosed too much personal info in this battle already.
Paul
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mind this is the time to stand tall join with other mental health teams and fight for all the carers and their loved ones. The media is not going to help, they just stigmatise! We are the lone voices calling in a hostile environment.
C'mon do it for us if you care.
You have the funds, the contacts etc that we do not.
Set up a vote on uk.gov
Have an online petition.
Where is Alistair Campbell, Ruby Wax now? All these media people
C'mon -
@frances - then why isn't Mind telling Grayling some reasonable solutions such as we've suggested? [or at least to my knowledge] because as Paul says they have been involved in this].
However in saying this, it's possible Grayling et al have been told but just don't care because they want everyone in full-time work or on JSA on forced workschemes to offer employers free labour because they refuse to believe anyone can be sick/disabled or unable to find work.
Or as cymro's link suggests this really isn't about economics or help but hatred, scapegoating -
reply to tom at mind i agree that there may be people who want to work now or in the future,and i would like to but i fear i will never work again due to my condition,but as i keep saying the word that mind does not seem to want to hear voluntary as in the past you cannot force sick and disabled into something they cannot do and most would volunteer to work if they could,we are not talking like the gov who seem to think that most are a fraud that is a different matter and should be tackled differently,but they are treating everyone as a fraud and that is not true and frankly evil.
So mind please try and get onto question time and stick up for us and say that if you want to help sick and disabled the schemes should be VOLUNTARY do you not agree? -
re disabled on incapacity and dla some people are having there dla taken away because of the new esa benefit and also this and the last gov with charities help (not mind by the way) have set back disability freedom a long way as we know you maybe able to get dla and work but for those who cannot are now scared to go out and do anything for fear of benefit cuts,so things that could have helped like even going out in there mobility car they are afraid to and that includes hobbies? work also does not as the gov has said lead you out of poverty it can in some cases but not anyone thats disabled in a low paying and bullied job,i should know because i have been bullied all my life in jobs by low lifes and even with protection or supposed workplace protection it will not change.
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Interesting comments above, I'm clearly out of touch in most areas. I'm virtually housebound and the only person I see in my life is my private carer (No family). I don't even open my door to anyone anymore and just a knock triggers a massive panic attack. My heart feels weaker by the day.
I cannot attend day centres for service users where we could share experiences and learn from each other, I have been isolated.
I will not be able to attend any assessment, so I expect I will lose all my benefits. I would not last 5 mins Street homeless. My only realistic option is my exit plan, although I do fear the pain and want a quick way out. But, I would rather die with some dignity at home, not on the Street, the place I fear the most. I am also worried how my suicide would impact on my carer who will be the person to discover me.
Does anyone know of an organisation we can trust? Or are we all as I fear, totally alone? -
Thanks for all your comments. Commenting on the blog is disabled over the weekend, while Mind's office is closed. You will be able to resume commenting on Monday morning.
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Government have no idea how many people are feeling suicidal at the prospect of fixed medicals, 12 months of appeals [which is why some people give up before even trying], being forced on JSA losing 10% of housing benefit after 12 months knowing that years out of the job market mean JSA forevermore intersperced with forced 'workfare', that's a bleak future.
Voluntary work is not acceptable as an outcome, low paid part-time work is not viable for single people with no partner back up so it forces people into either full-time work which they won't get compared to people with solid work histories and degrees [who can't get work], or JSA forevermore [and without any paid support the person previously had].
So it adds up to 12 months of humiliation, losing income, being in the most impoverised version of JSA we've ever seen with sanctions and force, losing support, possibly having to move if the housing benefit exceeds the cap, little wonder people are planning their suicides in certain circumstances. If this were cancer patients this would be 10 o'clock news and laywers would be looking to go to court. Sadly I don't think even suicides would dent them, not when you read of an MP complaining about the "monotonous regularity" of people throwing themselves onto a railway line they travel on.
Everyone is desperately holding onto what they have, there is not enough will for organisations to fight with us, and sickness/disability/mental health problems/learning disabilities/anyone who's unemployed have become the lowest of society. Maybe we should all remember this fine verse:They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up. -
http://www.lwbooks.co.uk/journals/articles/rutherford07.html
For any one that is interested in how welfare reform in respect of sickness benefit (IB) was started under thte Tories in 1993 and the involvement of the American insurance companies with the help of others, including I believe the ex head of the DWP Mr Alyward.
He was awarded an OBE recently and has probably made a fortune from all of this. Of course he always throws in his hard upbringing, in Merthyr if I am correct.
All there is left now is the unemployment and sickness insurance policies to be pushed on a large scale.
Paul.
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Rest assured, people with mental health issues aren't sanctioned by the DWP. Just make sure they put a cross on the mental health box on the referral form and you cannot get sanctioned and won't lose your benefits if you don't turn up. I work on the Pathways to Work scheme and I am sick of making people more ill by threats that won't be carried out. Spread the word
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I volunteer at the CAB and beleive me the one thing that advisors struggle with is the complicated benefits system. Even law graduates say how difficult it is being part of the training. Reading these blogs just proves that that having a mental illness does not mean we're stupid, far from it. How many people relatively unnaffected by the Govt's policies have the knowledge these bloggers have on how the media/DWP/Govt are increasing stigmatising certain sections of society? How many really know the intricities of the Comprenhensive Spending Review as much as bloggers on this post? By the way the Mail printed responses to their article on Monday, Mind's was amongst them. I just wish the debate could go wider, so our voices really would be heard.
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A Times article states that single people working part-time will have benefit top-ups taken after a few months, jobs at 16 hrs or less at minimum wage isn’t enough to live on with commerical rents so this pretty much forces the issue that if you’re ‘fit for work’ it has to be full-time, this just entrenches the all or nothing position. Now even part-time as an option has been taken away
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Might as well give up now. No future ahead, whats the point. I`d rather be in debt than be named a scrounger.They can keep my benifits, and spend it on posh hotesl, slap up meals,and of course there expenses.
I would like to thank our Prime minister for making us all feel like hanger on, what you forget we are handing on by thread. -
I'd love to be able to do one or two days of work a month, or maybe 3 or 4 afternoons, paid or unpaid it wouldn't matter to me. It would be wonderful if I could be sitting here planning for next Spring when they start moving us from the "unsupportive unproductive sit-and-rot" incapacity benefit to the "fully supportive productive brilliantly-designed" ESA and think of all the ways I could try to do a few hours work here and there where I would be able without pressure or fear. But instead, I sit here and plan my own suicide; knowing I won't be able to return to full-time work as soon as they will force me to; knowing that the joint forces of government and media have already damaged me so much that I don't even feel able to face a medical assessment let alone attempting full-time work; knowing that I will be better off dead and not ever daring to think about the possible consequences of still being alive this time next year.
And still they are getting away with it. Every day, another announcement, soon I fear they will go so far that the jokes about people in a coma being able to get paid employment as doorstops and paperweights will actually come true. -
I suffer with Severe Anxiety & Moderate to severe depression diagnosed in Agust 2009. I attended a medical asessment in February 2010 before I had been seen by the mental health team.
I was found to be fit for work. According to the government website the healthcare professional should have begun by taking a brief history covering:
- what I did in my old job and when and why I left?
- A brief medical history including details of treatment, medication
and any hospital stays and my domestic situation
- How my illness or disability affects how I can perform everyday
tasks and an outline of a typical day for me.I was examined by a state registered Nurse who had been on a mental health course who did not do any of the above. She told me she'd read my ESA application form but admitted she hadnt seen my GP's letter or the letter from the mental health team.
I had a thorough physical examination even though she was aware that I was suffering from depression. She gave me a cognition test or a mini mental state examination to assess my mental situation. These tests are commonly used to assess dementia not depression.
I appealed against the decision. The appeal was declined without the decision maker having read the medical evidence I supplied. I was told it was in their admin system but that the decision had already been made without it.
I had to send it all in again but for some reason unkown to me they sent my appeal & medical evidence to ATOS who carried out the medical examination. My appeal was declined again, presumably by ATOS?
I was then told that my case was being referred to a tribunal in April 2010 and I was given a bundle of information inlcuding the report the nurse sent to the DWP.
The report was a revelation! The nurse had not recorded my answers to three questions at all. When asked if I could kneel bend or squat I said no and I couldnt perform the physical task when asked. She recorded that I had no problems bending, kneeling or squatting in the report.
When asked had I ever had suicidal thoughts I said that I had but i had attributed them to my feeling I had let my family down and I would be better off dead. I told her my GP had confirmed I'd had the thoughts in his letter. She recorded that I had not had any suicidal thoughts.
Finally I was asked about problems with my bowels or bladder. I told the nurse I had a history of prostatic problems, issues with continence and going to the loo 4-5 times a night. I also told her I'd had severe bowel cramps and had a CT scan on my bowel. I said I had medical histories in both areas. She recorded that I had not had any problems with bowels or bladder.
I now know that the lowest score of the rating scale for each of these questions would have been 6 and so I would have scored 18 overall and 15 is the level for remaining on ESA.
The tribunal letter said I'd be dealt with within 14 weeks which was 25 weeks ago. When I asked if the independent panel would have a mental health professional on it to hear my case I was told that they didnt know.
I'm not paranoid but I really dont think I'm going to get a fair hearing?
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Heres a foolproof way to fail the ESA medical if you have mental health issues
Ask the jobcentre for help to fill in the ESA claim form
Turn up late for the medical having had a few cans of special brew beforehand.
Make sure you are dishevelled, unkempt and unwashed. Body odour would be good as would old clothes.
Fidget and look agitated whilst waiting to be seen and pace up and down the waiting area. Talk to yourself loudly.
when called by the "healthcare professional" walk slowly and unsteadily and go the wrong way if you can.
Speak falteringly, fail to make eye contact and visibly look agitated by strumming your fingers on the desk or shake your leg frequently.
Dont sit still for more than 5 minutes, dont answer the questions immediately, slurr your words and if asked to get up from the chair ask for help or fall over.
Get all the cognitive questions wrong When asked to remember three objects - dont! When asked to count back in 7's from 100 give random answers. If youre asked to spell a word ...get it wrong.
Pee in the sink before leaving. That should do it! -
I agree with Nick.... errr, no, I don't!!
I Do Agree with Bernard! Well said! -
well not neccessarily, I've heard of people getting genuinely distressed during a medical, being told 'it's ok, we're stop here' and then being found 'fit for work', it doesn't seem to matter how distressed a person is.
It's also very sad if people feel that they have to conform to a set stereotype of what a person with mental health problems should look like in order to be taken seriously such as stinking of urine and living in rubbish, this is really humiliating. Why should anyone have to do that?
Fact is no one is typically 100% disabled/or fit, but this system forces people into one of these positions.
There needs to be more flexibility such as part-time work of up to 16 hrs without all benefits being removed after a few months, and for this to be possible indefinately if supported by a consultant or GP.
There needs to be chosen voluntary work and remaining on benefits as another option.
There needs to be a middle group where people work when they can and then go back onto benefits without a trial.
There needs to be options inbetween coma and full-time work because right now that's what it is. -
Disabled people fighting back:
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My MP, who is a tory, is speaking out against the fit for work test, concerning people with mental health problems. 48% of people with mental health conditions who were found fit for work are winning their appeal. These figures don't even include the people who don't bother to appeal, so it would inevitably be higher. Something has to be done about this awful diabolical assessment. It's downright scandalous and causing unnecessary stress for so many who are already struggling.
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Atos healthcare...If you have no legs,arms,blind and deaf Atos Healthcare will find you fit for work,they are a total bunch of t*****s who have no sympathy or understanding how any illness affects a person and only care in getting you of benefits to improve their figures and look good in the goverments eyes to keep their contract.How can a firm be independant and fair,are they trying to say if they had 100 people who are genuinly unfit for work attending in one day they will find them all unfit for work I doubt that very much.
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http://www.disabilityartsonline.org.uk/?unique_name=crippen-blog&item=742&itemoffset=9
Blood on their hands
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/nov/07/britain-welfare-state-born-usa.
Latest on the thinking behind welfare reform and how American policies are being introduced here including forced workfare for everybody, disabled or not, must emphasise it is not jobs but forced workfare..
What they do not tell you is how a massive social crisis is developing by the day in good old USA as the rich elite gets richer and the giant pyramid scheme is slowly colllapsing through in the elites pure greed and everyman for themselves policies.
Paul.
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So, voluntary work is no longer an acceptable outcome for the sick who cannot work full time, but forced manual labour is.
Everyone is found "fit for work" and moved on to "out of work" benefits and threatened with sanctions for not co-operating. There are five applicants for every job available right now and it's going to get worse but if you haven't found a job after a set time, it's all your fault for being "lazy" and you'll be sent off to do "community work".
This is how they've planned to offset the public service cuts then. Slash budgets and funding for front line services so that councils are forced to make staff cutbacks. Then use the "feckless" "workshy" "scroungers" to do the "community jobs" that aren't being done anymore because the workers have been made redundant. Streets swept, fences painted, schools repaired and all done by a workforce forced to do it for £65 a week. Private sector jobs gone? No need to worry, the DWP will set up a "voluntary scheme" to help companies out.
There will be no incentive for the coalition to "help" people back into "real" jobs, or stimulate the economy to generate new ones, while IDS has his 1.5m strong army of slaves. And how does this fit in with his favourite soundbite, "We will make sure work always pays."?
My father, in his 80's, saw the reports of this scheme and used one word to describe the coalition for its intentions. Sadists.
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http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2010/11/pilger-britain-british
John Pilger is right, the time is for direct action - service users [physical/learning disability/mental health/older people], charities, unions, professional bodies, people who work in all sectors, carers, relatives, council workers, the NHS, put all that together and there's a very big voice, enough to bring streets to a standstill.
National day's of actions and strikes, en mass admission/medication strikes, it's way beyond hand shakes and polite suggestions, the state is being dismantled. In the USA they cut people off completely from unemployment benefits after 99 weeks, you bet after disability benefits have been effectively removed that will be next, if not in this parliament then the next. -
I agree with a lot of others about the way that all of this is affecting them, and also myself, I am even contemplating the worse now, and have planned how I will end it all. Yes, I hold on but just barely, hoping that it will not all be as bad as things are being made out, though I am falling into a very deep depression now.
Everyday none stop attacks on us all, yet few speak up for us, it is disgusting, they are just taking taking over what Hitler left unfinished, but this time the sick and disabled. Isn't this against the law, discrimantion.
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What is also worrying is also the cuts that they are doing from every other angle, housing benefits etc. So as well as all this there is stress coming from everywhere else. It is like we are being attacked from every corner to wear us down, well it is working.
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after weeks of trying to be strong and not really feeling the impact of this i am now unable to sleep or relax ever. my therapy and treatment has been ruined by the fact that i really dont think i can cope with this. if i could get better i would be such a good person. right now i am just a useless waste of space. maybe its exactly what they want. for us to die. remember the miners? maybe they really actually do not care at all. funny isn't it. you never think its going to happen to you and then it does.
. sadly my family wish they could help me but they cant.will try to be strong..but just feeling so lost and worried. cant plan for the future with things like this. where am i going to live?
we are nothing to these people. we should have known all along.
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mental illness is a crime in this country. Excluded from employment/serving on Juries etc; many rejected by family/friends. When ever govt targets us there is little protest. The media know that they can carry on with 'workshy/scrounger' articles with impunity. Benefits will be taken and now as they are on a roll here forced workfare schemes for 2 pounds an hour! I heard last week of a little reported fact that community treatment orders which were introduced as a knee jerk reaction to the 'care in the community' failures are being given to 10 times more patients than was originally reported. People forced to take medication, no protest all done to satisfy the 'protection of the public' mantra.
If all this was happening to any other section of society there would be an absolute outcry, but its only the mentally ill so who gives a sh*t?
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I know that if I get threw into any schemes, or have my benefit stopped or even lowered I will not be able to cope with living expenses, let alone my mental and physical health being pushed way over the edge - so then to me there is only one way out as no way can I go through all of what they propose.
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I take it that this also means those like me on sickness benefit, seeing they are going to get rid of that title. Seeing also that they also state something like we will make sure you are provided for if say for example you have a terminal illness - not mentioning any other illness; this was in another article, but what do we do about the latest no benefits for three years?
So how am I going to survive for three years without food, shelter, etc, etc?
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in the 80s and 90s we know that the gov closed mental hospitals down and put us in care in the community which was ok for some and now they want to make us feel worthless and take away our only stable income with threats of benefit cuts if you do not comply i for one know that i cannot and willnot do this so i do not know what will happen why should we have our indepence threatened in the 6th richest country and why does mind not say to this and the last gov that the mentally ill should be in the exempt group when transferred to esa benefit as is the case now with dla high care?
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They have not really thought all these plans through, unless they know what the outcome is, and why they keep non-stop insulting us in the media, and also those stupid poses of LDS as though he is driving a car with his hands in postion, yeh he's in control, and all the other photos of the others - talk about controlling and dictative.
So what will happen, parents with kids, what will happen to them if their benefits are stopped, what will happen to utitilty companies, shops, as people will no longer be paying bills such as gas electric if they have no where to live.
Basically I think 2012 could well be right, there will be crime sky high, riots, the lot...and no wonder they are bringing the army back home and getting rid of the police, so they are on the streets armed.
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Mind, I ask in all sincerity. where are you ? why are you not being more proactive in helping us ? How many of us have to die or become homeless before you appear on TV news to inform the public about this situation ? You are suppose to be our voice, so speak up for us !
We are afraid and need you help !
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Why hasnt anybody been on the radio or tv today and spoken up for people with severe mental health problems who will be dumped on JSA and have these conditions forced on to them ? Trying to force some one with mental health issues into unsuitable, whether it be "workfare" or paid work, is hardly going to help is it ? For gods sake I am sick to death with all this.. I cant bloody cope with it. Why isnt our plight headline news ? why isnt any political party on our side ? This is so serious and so many people just do not seem to care. Please Mind we want to see you out there as much as possible, we need much much more publicity and stronger words are needed.
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i see on benefits and work ids wants to starve us in to submission if we fail to do as they say if we miss an appointment that is people that are sick and disabled put into the work related esa regrime and to add to my post above about the mental hospital closed now we are in the community it saves the gov a lot of money but now they want to threaten us.
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According to one political programme 70% of the population agree with these reforms and this is because the relentless media campaign has been very successful. Service user views here are not wanted by the media [and to express them openly would be at the persons own risk], will fall on deaf ears with MP's because none of them disagree with it. So how does Mind fight against an entire parliament, 70% of the public and the media all only hearing one thing and agreeing with it?
The only thing the charities and professional bodies can do is collect the suicide and admission rates and within 4-5 years there will be enough evidence that they won't be able to ignore, that's the hard reality. I foresee many suicide notes stating welfare [and the relentless denigration] as the main causes -
@shelly - Who is your MP? Has anything he/she has said been reported in the media yet?
@Amy - I would have thought that a full page ad in the newspapers would be a good start. A combined statement from all the organisations representing the sick and disabled would at least make some people think.
Something that has been mentioned only briefly in regard to the sanction of removing JSA if you don't comply, is that there is no appeal against that decision. So criminals have the right of appeal but the unemployed don't!
Trisha Goddard appeared on This Week last night (11 Nov) and broadly said she supported the coalition's plans but rejected the idea that the majority of the unemployed lacked the "work ethic". She also said that she has worked with Mind in the past (I think her depression was well reported) but failed to mention the effects this sanctioned, "forced labour" scheme will have on those of us here moved on to JSA after "failing" the WCA.
John Cruddas (Labour MP) was also on the programme and made the point that he is concerned that he is now seeing frightened, vulnerable people in his surgeries, some unarguably disabled and sick, some with progressive degenerative diseases, who are being found "fit for work" by the WCA. This is the first time, to my knowledge, that an MP has stated this publicly. Too bad it was after midnight and most people will know nothing of it.
It's on the iPlayer at the moment
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00w6ndq/This_Week_11_11_2010/
Mind has stated in these blogs that it is difficult to go against the flow and the media are beginning to report surveys that show high public support for the coalition's plans. Surely it must be possible to find the people out there who do support us and are prepared to (and will) speak out?
Some newspapers have reported that the coalition have lied and exaggerated, and represented the rare as the norm in order to justify their appalling attack on the most vulnerable people in our society. Is it not possible for Mind to approach these "friendlier" papers in order to put our case?
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Obviously this can lead to many taking their own lives, but I read on some newspaper that if it was someone committing suicide because of these changes, then that would not be reported or wrote about, and the other person said it had to be wrote about and not covered up, but it will be.
Also what is this single, universal credit are we not going to get money but like tokens or something; or is it all lining up for the one world currencey by the elite...'
All I see is people wanting all this change, yeah there are some on forums thinking it is disgusting and want people to speak up for us, but from what I see the government and media have got everyone against us. These changes are coming in by 2013 don't they have to be voted in? Also hopefully condem or whoever will be OUT.
Look at the Students up in arms, I just wish we could make a greater impact upon all this crap that has made us feel like dirt.
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Interesting correllation of statistics here, 70% of employers won't employ the mentally ill, 70% of the public think workfare is a good thing.
I beleive many have been taken in by the patronising assumption that the unemployed/long term sick need to 'get in the habit' of work even if it means working for nothing rather like a dog needs to be trained to do certain tasks. Would they do it? How would they feel if they are told 'Well your not good enough for a proper job and a proper wage but for your own good you can work for your benefit' This is dehumanising and puts the blame on the individual rather than society. And if people are too ill to work why should they suffer the added stress of sanctions?
Never mind that many people do voluntary work anyway. I agree that the the govt/media campaign has stigmatised the mentally ill in particular. People would naturally sympathise with someone with physical illness/disability, they too are being targeted but at least they have some voice and are not totally ignored by the media. I beleive the govt knew who to attack from the beginning and I for one would like to bite back! -
Actually Linda,
I don't think any of us have a voice speaking up for us, where do you get that idea from because all I am seeing is full on attacks on all of us unless you are terminally ill, or dead.
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Actually all I seem to be doing is commenting on the net, even this blog, about all the welfare changes, we don't have anyone speaking or taking action for us. And soon this blog will close, and then a new blog will open on this site about some other news with all of this, and then we just go round in circles again. How sad is that.
I also heard that charities are on the side of these welfare cuts, maybe that is why nothing has been done for us.
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Yes legislation has to be voted on - but Labour back all this. Even if ConDems don't get back in at the next election ALL parties support this and are not arguing against it so it doesn't matter who is in power
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This is what we're up against.
The Sun (yes, I know...) 10th November 2010.
and their comment on the article.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/sun_says/3222139/The-Sun-Says.html
I included the link in case anyone doubted this could possibly be real.
With the heading, "Sick joke"
"NO wonder 2.6million are claiming incapacity benefit.
It's so easy to qualify we might as well leave sacks of tenners on street corners for anyone to help themselves.
Fidgeting and refusing to board a bus count as official anxiety disorders worth £91.40 a week.
Three quarters of incapacity benefit claimants checked by the Government have proved fit for work.
If anyone is entitled to an anxiety attack, it's taxpayers subsidising this racket."
This is a biased, ignorant, trivialisation of recognised symptoms of a mental illness, perpetuating the myth that claiming sickness benefits is easy, and repeats the coalition's mis-information about the number of those assessed found "fit for work". It is prejudicial and discriminatory, so how is it possible for them to get away with this and just what is it going to take to stop them?
Isn't this just the sort of thing that Mind campaigns against?
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I know a lot of mental health patients who failed the 'sick test'. Which is remarkable when they are signed off on the the sick, have a much severer illness than me, and yet I got it no problem! And it's EXTREMELY stressful for them. What on earth did I do that they didn't?
1. I took advice from a specialist support worker trained in mental health and benefits (NOT a CPN)
2. Got a thorough grounding in the new system rather than listening to rumours.
3. Rang the DSS helpline, ignored rumours I had heard and discovered they are trained in dealing with people with mental health problems now and the were fab. I get memory loss and muddled words and they were fab. When I'd put something wrong down on a form they just changed it and re-asessed. There is no silly appeal process and no going along again.
All because I tried it, I knew there was a new system, it wasn't the same. The old system - well, when they got my claim wrong and eneded it there was nothing I could do! Don't muddle the old with the new.
It really does happen like that, so stop worrying everyone!!!!
4. If you have physical illness have you put that down aswell?
5. Do not treat it as a job interview and do not try to impress (one of my pals did this - I couldn't believe it when she told me. It made sense to her until she realised.
6. You are supposed to be telling the person how your illness affects you. With mental illness you may well do things you are unaware of, so don't try feigning anything or you will cover up what's really there.
7. ALWAYS take a support worker with you who understands the new system properly. The assessment is no different to the IncBen one - so what's the panic? -
One thing; as I read my way back through the comments, suddenly - waah - a big hit of depression, which I get. Everybody, there is so much downside in your comments. Before you know it you've spiralled down into the deep pits of despair. Can we have a bit of positive? Rose tinted specs is unrealistic, as is all bad. All the colours of the spectrum, which incidentally is not the grey bit in the middle of black and white.
If you cut up all the comments it would make a lovely collage.
Linda above - I agree with everything you say, but it still gets depressing. 'The Gov knew who to atack' - they're supposed to and they publish it too. It's not a mystery. The Gov is not all good or all bad either. Perhaps half the front bench has committed murder - but all of them? No, I'm quite sure of that.
It's the last 2 paragraphs really - people with physical illness DO get just as much stick; and I don't believe the mentally ill are totally ignored. Persnally I ignore the ignorant minorities - they really have little impact on my life. Stop thinking about them - they must be loving it! -
Jolly good OTT very pleased for you but the CAB stats speak for themselves, most people are failed, are going to appeal/tribunal which can take 12 months, people have good reason to feel depressed on the basis of the evidence. Not everyone has back up and support as services are being restructured more people will be discharged back to primary care and CAB's, who offer the very specialist support which is needed are losing more of their funding, they are going to be overwhelmed by the sheer numbers of people from next year. I take your point and it's good to hear of the few people who have navigated their way through it but the overall picture remains very worrying. Yes people with physical disabilities get stick too but in the public consciousness there will still always be more understanding towards someone with a white stick or wheelchair then there is for people where it is not visible, or not visible in a stereotyped way. The discrimination against people with mental health difficulties I do perceive to be greater certainly when it comes to employers or the crminal justice system. The government have put out dispicable propaganda and that is not justifiable because I'm certain it has fuelled the increase in hate crimes against disabled people. I know of mental health service users who have been publicly interrogated about their employment and medical histories because they are seen as fair game now, they are expected to justify their existence, I've never seen anything quite like this before. I'm glad you can find the 'up side' to this but forgive me if I can't.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/nov/14/welfare-reform-working-slivers-of-time
This is you will work by stealth, they dangle this carrot of ‘just do 2 hrs’ then before you know it, it’s 10, then they cut off benefit credits and tell you now you have to do full-time. I don’t trust them as far as I can throw them. Of course Tesco’s etc will lap it up – they could effectively have half a workforce on minimum wages doing their ‘slivers of time’ which means they have no statutory responsibility to offer sick pay/holiday pay.
I can see this system might be useful for young people with no work experience trying to gain some in manageable slices and for a bit of ‘pocket money’ because that’s all it would amount to, but this is hardly viable for disabled adults [especially single] who could end up having all financial support withdrawn on the basis of ‘you’ve done 6 hours now you can do it full-time’. It's still unclear at the moment at what point benefit credits will be withdrawn at what level of working hours because from what I can see this could happen with part-time work after a few months, which would force single people into full-time work as two days a week at minimum wage is unlikely to pay the rent. I'd like to see a system where people really could do a couple of hours work or move in and out of part-time work with benefit levels maintained munis those hours [going back onto their same levels of IB/DLA without endless reassessments] but I find it hard to believe that would happen now. I think it will be sold as this would happen but I can just picture 12 month rules where after that time you're on JSA and have to fnd full-time, I can't see them wearing disabled people doing 4 hrs a week and maintaining their benefit levels [minus 4 hrs] forever more, they won't do that. They should, that could work, but they won't, not unless there was MASSIVE campaigning. If there was a 'middle ground' between 'fit for work' and no work where people really could work a few hours or dip in/out of part-time work AND maintain their current levels of income without it being time limited or forced to full-time that could be a real alternative to the current mess we have now. They would still save some money, even if someone is on IB and DLA at full whack and works 4 hrs a week and that's deducted from their income, it would still be a saving, and frankly if that means people maintain their stability doing that then why not? Why can't they consider that kind of flexibility. Ditto some people really would prefer their voluntary work to be their 'outcome', this is still contributing to society, why can't those individuals remain on their benefits and do their voluntary work as another part of 'middle ground' if it means they don't end up back in hospital through the stress of doing paid work, because hospital always costs more.
Middle ground which is NOT time limited is what Mind should be fighting for on the committee's because that might just be more achievable. Whoever moderates this, I ask please would you get Paul Farmer to read this post specifically to consider what I'm proposing - middle ground, he's on the committee evaluating the medical assessments, this could be something he argues for [alongside these assessments being redesigned].
This should be front page news:
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/blogs/adult-care-blog/2010/11/disability-minister-fails-test-of-maths-and-logic.html -
I have some worries but I actually think you are doing well compared to some reluctant charities. I applaud your effort to aknowledge the issues and your attempt to get involved in bringing some amount of justice to the welfare agenda.
I have been browsing the ol' net to see if I could find some reassurance that these issues were not being ignored. Particulary about the botched WCA. I found some shockers than I have no words for!
"While we recognise that the times ahead are going to be difficult for many, we are hopeful that the government will remain vigilant in maintaining and expanding mental health services to meet the needs of those who are affected by the spending cuts."
It almost made me wish that I didn't get up this morning.
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@In Despair
Don't want to name my MP but he does appear to have a genuine concern about the WCA, regarding people with mental health problems. I have emailed him twice voicing my concerns about it and he replied on both occasions.He has been questioning the DWP ministers regarding ATOS and I think he's continuing to do so. He voiced his concerns about it in my local press, though obviously it would be far better if it was in the national press.
The Social Security Advisory Committee has compiled a report about the WCA and it's fairly critical of the assessment. Don't know how to add a link, but I read it on the Benefits and Work website, not sure if you have to be a member to see it though. Perhaps someone could add the link.
Although we're not getting the publicity we want, there are people on our side working behind the scenes.
I'm having a positive day today, tomorrow, well who knows... -
What hope for the mentally ill with over-privileged sociopaths running the country and mental health charities only making half hearted attempts to speak out against these iniquitous reforms for fear of losing government funding?
It's totally immoral that the say so of highly trained mental health professionals, with comprehensive knowledge of people's conditions, can be discarded in favour of assessments by people poorly trained in mental health issues and with no in depth knowledge of the person they are assessing.
How many suicides will it take before these barbaric and foolhardy reforms are consigned to the dustbin of history?
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@shelly
Thanks. I can understand your reluctance to name your MP though. My local MP has stated publicly their support for the coalition's welfare reform and all that entails, so there's no chance of me getting a sympathetic hearing there. I wonder just what it will take for someone to go mainstream with all this.I looked for the report that shelly mentioned but, not being a member on the website, could not access it. I did find a link through to this though:-
http://www.disabilitynow.org.uk/latest-news2/challenged-on-cheats-miller-blames-media
So it's the media then! How can Cameron, Clegg, IDS, Grayling and Osborne deny the evidence there in speeches that were televised and in TV and press interviews, where they used the language that has turned most of the public against the sick and disabled? Shame on Maria Miller for her defence of the coaltion on this.
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New tests to force pople onto JSA.
New rules to stop your benefit from 3 months to 3 years in 2013 if you do not take up a job offer.
This could prove too much for people battling a mental illness with fatal results.
But then again perhaps it meant to. -
Whille I agree that the media are reporting some worrying details of what action may be taken to Get People Back Into Work, I agree with OTT that the comments are overwhelmingly focussing on the worst of what we've heard, and I'm not sure scaring ourseves into apocalyptic scenarios is really doing anyone any favours. The current welfare system is not exactly wonderful and some of the proposals are in-theory positive.
Why should people have their benefits snatched from them if they do a few hours work each week? How do we expect people to get back into work if they can't test the waters as to how much they can cope with. A phased benefit system could give some of us the chance to do so, some may be surprised by how much they can manage, some, of course, would not.
Recovery fro mental illness IS possible (I say this as someone sucessfully managing bipolar (and has been for 2+ years), who's bet friend has been in recovery from anorexia nervosa for 18 months). I urge you, never give up.
I appreciate that people are justifiably concerned about what's going to happen over the coming months/years, but there could be some positives too. Don't write yourselves off though, nothing's finalised yet and turfing everyone onto the street isn't going to get anyone re-elected.
Chin up.
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Ok well name me some positives! Jobs available for us? no Benefits taken away, yes, workfare, yes, constant media vilification yes, a voice in this society, no. Oh and not forgetting the illness, the isolation, the lack of help from the services, the labelling, the rejection, stigma and ignorance. Hardly surprising that people write themselves off when that is exactly what society is doing to them.
When I see headlines showing our side of the equation then I might feel more positive. Otherwise stuff the polyanna soundbites, they don't work and just make me feel more angry
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A TV company called TrueVision, who make hard hitting documentaries for the BBC, are making a documentary about the effects the cuts are/will have on disabled people. They are looking for people who are prepared to tell their story.
I understand there are many of us, me included, who would be unable to do this, even if we wanted to, but I think it's so important for somebody with mental health problems, severe and mild, to take part in this film. If anyone thinks they would be able to handle this, then check their website out and contact them.
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Just found this aswell
A BBC producer seeks people having problems with medical assessments with ATOS. Looking for people who are registered disabled but who still failed the assessment, but preferably people who have won their appeal. BBC are doing a piece on ATOS as part of disability week from November 29th.
Anyone interested should contact him, include contact details and a brief summary of your situation.
Email Philip.Hendry@bbc.co.uk
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I like to share the same concern with regard to the WCA. I am a support worker for a homeless charity working with people with mental health problems. Based on real -life scenarios, I can say that this assessment is not only gratify the mental health suffers but it even sometimes triggers the problems.
The uniformity approaches of assessors” all guilty until proven innocent” are detrimental and degrading to people and this assessment creates even more paperwork and cost. -
You take part in TV programmes at your own risk because producers don't give you editorial control over your contribution and if writing to some MP's results in details being passed directly to the DWP then being that visible on television could be a risk.
Anyone willing to take part I would suggest you have your identity concealed and explain why you need to do that. It is important that the country hears the views of service users because to date they haven't so they don't have a clue, but people are not exactly heavily protected here. It could also do with service users speaking with back up from representatives from the charities, BMA, RCP, RCN as their members will be dealing with the fall out.As for being able to 'test the waters' of working, the detail of this is not clear because they were saying that the amount people could keep would be time limited as in if someone worked a few hours they would keep the majority of their benefits then it would taper off - so what happens a few months later if you can't increase your hours? If the possibility of working a few hours [by choice] and having that deducted from benefits [maintained] had no time limit it would get my vote, but can you really imagine that having no time limit?
If the 'tapering' occurs after a few months then it still forces people into working full-time or not at all scenario [if you can prove you're in a coma]. I share Linda's views what is there to feel positive about?
People have the potential to transcend their distress and difficulties yes, but getting through this may not be possible, that's the tragedy. How bloody sad that people fight to have a better life just to find themselves trashed by the tabloid media and government policy. Fact is not everyone will have the strength, support, or services of their local CAB [with funding cuts] to go through months of appeals or sit in front of a tribunal . -
The whole 'guilty until proved innocent' approach to the farcical computerized medical process and its drawn out appeals is a totally unsuitable way of assessing entitlement to benefit for people who are already suffering with debilitating mental health and physical conditions.
Subjecting vulnerable people to a barrage of unfair medicals and scrutiny by unknown doctors and less qualified health practitioners, whilst ignoring the advice of claimant's specialists and GPs and those with any real understanding of our ability to function in the work place is unethical.
It is cruel and inhumane, compounding people's illnesses.
The whole approach is counter-productive, delaying any hope of recovery.
The government should be focusing its limited resources on providing flexible and unconditional support.
And at these very uncertain times - where is the clear reassurance from ministers to disability organisations and to benefit claimants via personal communication and the media, that people suffering with depression and other mental and physical illnesses will be protected from benefit sanctions?
How can our coalition government seriously propose a 10% cut in housing benefit for people who have not found a job after 12 months and in receipt of JSA - many of whom will have been forced onto it with long term health conditions following an unfair medical?
I have recently heard Chris Grayling our employment minister talking about 'saving people's lives'. Sadly, people living in fear of homelessness and being frightened to death by all the threats and negative government and media attention is the reality behind the latest propaganda.
Could Paul Farmer in his 'scrutiny role' please ensure that all of the overarching systemic problems, including the lack of accountability on the part of Atos Healthcare are addressed by the Harrington Inquiry. Where is the redress when their poor medical advice comes to light at a successful appeal?
Hopefully Professor Harrington has the authority to demand transparency from Atos Healthcare and ask them to declare the company they secretly use as their 'independent tier' investigating any complaints against them at a high level. I have been lead to believe they use Unum, the disability insurance company at the heart of welfare reform - could the inquiry please confirm this.
Atos Healthcare have remained a law unto themselves and protected from jurisdiction for far too long.
Please ensure that Professor Harrington and his team address issues of impartiality and conflict of interest in light of Atos also getting involved in partnering the Shaw Trust in providing back to work shemes.
Also - in light of the proposals to time limit national insurance based ESA, could Mind throw some light on how people with pre-existing mental health conditions fare regarding private health insurance. How are we covered by insurance provided by employers and what about cover taken out by individuals? Does it come with very high premiums or are we simply excluded?
Is Unum dictating on welfare reform so it can profit from an increase in employers and individuals taking out their insurance policies?
Limiting contribution based ESA to twelve months would have a devastating effect on the finances of people who have a partner on a low income but have had their own careers and earning power blighted by illness.I wish Mind well in its vital role in the Harrington Inquiry and want to thank Mike and Naheen for representing us and indeed all the people who have contributed to Mind's welfare reform blogs.
These blogs, whilst heart wrenching, do provide an invaluable opportunity to share information and highlight how we are being effected.
Let's hope our serious concerns will be addressed in the inquiry and its findings taken on board by the government.
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What hope for the mentally ill with over-privileged sociopaths running the country and mental health charities only making half hearted attempts to speak out against these iniquitous reforms for fear of losing government funding?
It's totally immoral that the say so of highly trained mental health professionals, with comprehensive knowledge of people's conditions, can be discarded in favour of assessments by people poorly trained in mental health issues and with no in depth knowledge of the person they are assessing.
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Mind should have been more on the ball from way back as the coalition say every day that they have listened to organisations like MIND, and they have told them that people with disablities want to work, but just need help. Time for MIND and all the other organsiations who cooperated with this disgusting re-assessment process to speak up again loud and clear and really represent the disabled community and not the government, in saying NO to these reforms before more people lose their delicately balanced health and worse still their lives through these callous and in-human methods of deducting benefits from the most need and vulnerable people in society.
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Been reported in local paper that hospitals are seeing a rise in self harm, most with concerns about losing their benefits and the welfare reforms.
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